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	<title>Comments on: The necessity of early stage valuations</title>
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		<title>By: webwright</title>
		<link>http://www.tonywright.com/2009/the-necessity-of-early-stage-valuations/#comment-535</link>
		<dc:creator>webwright</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 02:50:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tonywright.com/?p=161#comment-535</guid>
		<description>Yeah, investors certainly want to see a big bump-- in your scenario, they&lt;br&gt;generally want to see a minimum of a 5x but hope for a 10x or greater.&lt;br&gt;Given that they&#039;ve taken $155m in funding, that ALMOST eliminates the&lt;br&gt;&quot;chopping block&#039; scenario you describe.  Hard to guess the post money&lt;br&gt;valuation, but let&#039;s say they&#039;e sold 50% of their company for all that&lt;br&gt;cash.  That&#039;s a valuation of $310m, which means a 5x exit would be $1.5B -&lt;br&gt;$3.1B - that would seem like they are angling for IPO (which means finding a&lt;br&gt;revenue model).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Whether Twitter is an early stage startup is an interesting question.  Maybe&lt;br&gt;they have peaked-- there are certainly some sites that indicate their growth&lt;br&gt;has flattened (though that might just be a migration from the web to Twitter&lt;br&gt;clients).  To say that there will be no dramatic growth in their future&lt;br&gt;(when they had dramatic growth as recently as a few months ago) is probably&lt;br&gt;premature.  Clearly a lot of people are betting that there is more magic&lt;br&gt;that&#039;s going to happen there, whether it&#039;s growth or monetizing their&lt;br&gt;existing traffic.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I agree with a lot of what you&#039;re saying-- if Twitter doesn&#039;t change.  With&lt;br&gt;the war chest they have and the talent they&#039;ve grabbed, my guess is that&lt;br&gt;they&#039;ll be trying a lot of ambitious things in the next 24 months.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, investors certainly want to see a big bump&#8211; in your scenario, they<br />generally want to see a minimum of a 5x but hope for a 10x or greater.<br />Given that they&#39;ve taken $155m in funding, that ALMOST eliminates the<br />&#8220;chopping block&#39; scenario you describe.  Hard to guess the post money<br />valuation, but let&#39;s say they&#39;e sold 50% of their company for all that<br />cash.  That&#39;s a valuation of $310m, which means a 5x exit would be $1.5B -<br />$3.1B &#8211; that would seem like they are angling for IPO (which means finding a<br />revenue model).</p>
<p>Whether Twitter is an early stage startup is an interesting question.  Maybe<br />they have peaked&#8211; there are certainly some sites that indicate their growth<br />has flattened (though that might just be a migration from the web to Twitter<br />clients).  To say that there will be no dramatic growth in their future<br />(when they had dramatic growth as recently as a few months ago) is probably<br />premature.  Clearly a lot of people are betting that there is more magic<br />that&#39;s going to happen there, whether it&#39;s growth or monetizing their<br />existing traffic.</p>
<p>I agree with a lot of what you&#39;re saying&#8211; if Twitter doesn&#39;t change.  With<br />the war chest they have and the talent they&#39;ve grabbed, my guess is that<br />they&#39;ll be trying a lot of ambitious things in the next 24 months.</p>
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		<title>By: fijiaaron</title>
		<link>http://www.tonywright.com/2009/the-necessity-of-early-stage-valuations/#comment-534</link>
		<dc:creator>fijiaaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 01:52:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tonywright.com/?p=161#comment-534</guid>
		<description>your argument essentially boils down to &quot;I want to make money off of startups, so I want startup valuations to be high.&quot;  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Some founders may not be thinking about valuation when they receive early stage investment, but investors are.  If they take a 25% stake for $1 million, they&#039;re expecting it to sell for at least $4 million when they put their puppy up on the chopping block.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The key word here is &quot;early&quot; stage. They expect growth (or at least hype) to increase valuation.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;Twitter is not an early stage startup.  They&#039;ve pretty much peaked.  There may be sustained growth, but there will be no more exponential growth in users.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;While a revenue stream may eventually appear, no one is really optimistic.  That&#039;s why you get the disbelief.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Twitter&#039;s valuation is now based not on the auction block, but the chopping block.  There are existing revenue generating organizations who depend on monopolizing eyeballs.  To the extend that Twitter competes with eyeballs, controlling (or eliminating/assimilating) Twitter has value to them.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Online rivals include Facebook (obviously) but also Google and Yahoo.  All of which are in a similar situation themselves -- being worth more to their revenue generating competitors, who are primarily traditional media.  It was no accident that Time-Warner bought AOL or that NewsCorp bought MySpace.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Microsoft is the major non-media major player in the game that is also revenue generating, and they have been trying to get into the media business for a long time.  And that is why they are so obsessed with controlling the delivery mechanism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>your argument essentially boils down to &#8220;I want to make money off of startups, so I want startup valuations to be high.&#8221;  </p>
<p>Some founders may not be thinking about valuation when they receive early stage investment, but investors are.  If they take a 25% stake for $1 million, they&#39;re expecting it to sell for at least $4 million when they put their puppy up on the chopping block.</p>
<p>The key word here is &#8220;early&#8221; stage. They expect growth (or at least hype) to increase valuation.</p>
<p>Twitter is not an early stage startup.  They&#39;ve pretty much peaked.  There may be sustained growth, but there will be no more exponential growth in users.  </p>
<p>While a revenue stream may eventually appear, no one is really optimistic.  That&#39;s why you get the disbelief.</p>
<p>Twitter&#39;s valuation is now based not on the auction block, but the chopping block.  There are existing revenue generating organizations who depend on monopolizing eyeballs.  To the extend that Twitter competes with eyeballs, controlling (or eliminating/assimilating) Twitter has value to them.  </p>
<p>Online rivals include Facebook (obviously) but also Google and Yahoo.  All of which are in a similar situation themselves &#8212; being worth more to their revenue generating competitors, who are primarily traditional media.  It was no accident that Time-Warner bought AOL or that NewsCorp bought MySpace.  </p>
<p>Microsoft is the major non-media major player in the game that is also revenue generating, and they have been trying to get into the media business for a long time.  And that is why they are so obsessed with controlling the delivery mechanism.</p>
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		<title>By: webwright</title>
		<link>http://www.tonywright.com/2009/the-necessity-of-early-stage-valuations/#comment-533</link>
		<dc:creator>webwright</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:50:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tonywright.com/?p=161#comment-533</guid>
		<description>Yeah, investors certainly want to see a big bump-- in your scenario, they&lt;br&gt;generally want to see a minimum of a 5x but hope for a 10x or greater.&lt;br&gt;Given that they&#039;ve taken $155m in funding, that ALMOST eliminates the&lt;br&gt;&quot;chopping block&#039; scenario you describe.  Hard to guess the post money&lt;br&gt;valuation, but let&#039;s say they&#039;e sold 50% of their company for all that&lt;br&gt;cash.  That&#039;s a valuation of $310m, which means a 5x exit would be $1.5B -&lt;br&gt;$3.1B - that would seem like they are angling for IPO (which means finding a&lt;br&gt;revenue model).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Whether Twitter is an early stage startup is an interesting question.  Maybe&lt;br&gt;they have peaked-- there are certainly some sites that indicate their growth&lt;br&gt;has flattened (though that might just be a migration from the web to Twitter&lt;br&gt;clients).  To say that there will be no dramatic growth in their future&lt;br&gt;(when they had dramatic growth as recently as a few months ago) is probably&lt;br&gt;premature.  Clearly a lot of people are betting that there is more magic&lt;br&gt;that&#039;s going to happen there, whether it&#039;s growth or monetizing their&lt;br&gt;existing traffic.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I agree with a lot of what you&#039;re saying-- if Twitter doesn&#039;t change.  With&lt;br&gt;the war chest they have and the talent they&#039;ve grabbed, my guess is that&lt;br&gt;they&#039;ll be trying a lot of ambitious things in the next 24 months.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, investors certainly want to see a big bump&#8211; in your scenario, they<br />generally want to see a minimum of a 5x but hope for a 10x or greater.<br />Given that they&#39;ve taken $155m in funding, that ALMOST eliminates the<br />&#8220;chopping block&#39; scenario you describe.  Hard to guess the post money<br />valuation, but let&#39;s say they&#39;e sold 50% of their company for all that<br />cash.  That&#39;s a valuation of $310m, which means a 5x exit would be $1.5B -<br />$3.1B &#8211; that would seem like they are angling for IPO (which means finding a<br />revenue model).</p>
<p>Whether Twitter is an early stage startup is an interesting question.  Maybe<br />they have peaked&#8211; there are certainly some sites that indicate their growth<br />has flattened (though that might just be a migration from the web to Twitter<br />clients).  To say that there will be no dramatic growth in their future<br />(when they had dramatic growth as recently as a few months ago) is probably<br />premature.  Clearly a lot of people are betting that there is more magic<br />that&#39;s going to happen there, whether it&#39;s growth or monetizing their<br />existing traffic.</p>
<p>I agree with a lot of what you&#39;re saying&#8211; if Twitter doesn&#39;t change.  With<br />the war chest they have and the talent they&#39;ve grabbed, my guess is that<br />they&#39;ll be trying a lot of ambitious things in the next 24 months.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: fijiaaron</title>
		<link>http://www.tonywright.com/2009/the-necessity-of-early-stage-valuations/#comment-532</link>
		<dc:creator>fijiaaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:52:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tonywright.com/?p=161#comment-532</guid>
		<description>your argument essentially boils down to &quot;I want to make money off of startups, so I want startup valuations to be high.&quot;  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Some founders may not be thinking about valuation when they receive early stage investment, but investors are.  If they take a 25% stake for $1 million, they&#039;re expecting it to sell for at least $4 million when they put their puppy up on the chopping block.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The key word here is &quot;early&quot; stage. They expect growth (or at least hype) to increase valuation.&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;Twitter is not an early stage startup.  They&#039;ve pretty much peaked.  There may be sustained growth, but there will be no more exponential growth in users.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;While a revenue stream may eventually appear, no one is really optimistic.  That&#039;s why you get the disbelief.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Twitter&#039;s valuation is now based not on the auction block, but the chopping block.  There are existing revenue generating organizations who depend on monopolizing eyeballs.  To the extend that Twitter competes with eyeballs, controlling (or eliminating/assimilating) Twitter has value to them.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Online rivals include Facebook (obviously) but also Google and Yahoo.  All of which are in a similar situation themselves -- being worth more to their revenue generating competitors, who are primarily traditional media.  It was no accident that Time-Warner bought AOL or that NewsCorp bought MySpace.  Microsoft is the major non-media major player in the game that is also revenue generating, and they have been trying to get into the media business for a long time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>your argument essentially boils down to &#8220;I want to make money off of startups, so I want startup valuations to be high.&#8221;  </p>
<p>Some founders may not be thinking about valuation when they receive early stage investment, but investors are.  If they take a 25% stake for $1 million, they&#39;re expecting it to sell for at least $4 million when they put their puppy up on the chopping block.</p>
<p>The key word here is &#8220;early&#8221; stage. They expect growth (or at least hype) to increase valuation.</p>
<p>Twitter is not an early stage startup.  They&#39;ve pretty much peaked.  There may be sustained growth, but there will be no more exponential growth in users.  </p>
<p>While a revenue stream may eventually appear, no one is really optimistic.  That&#39;s why you get the disbelief.</p>
<p>Twitter&#39;s valuation is now based not on the auction block, but the chopping block.  There are existing revenue generating organizations who depend on monopolizing eyeballs.  To the extend that Twitter competes with eyeballs, controlling (or eliminating/assimilating) Twitter has value to them.  </p>
<p>Online rivals include Facebook (obviously) but also Google and Yahoo.  All of which are in a similar situation themselves &#8212; being worth more to their revenue generating competitors, who are primarily traditional media.  It was no accident that Time-Warner bought AOL or that NewsCorp bought MySpace.  Microsoft is the major non-media major player in the game that is also revenue generating, and they have been trying to get into the media business for a long time.</p>
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		<title>By: Jared Goralnick</title>
		<link>http://www.tonywright.com/2009/the-necessity-of-early-stage-valuations/#comment-531</link>
		<dc:creator>Jared Goralnick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 18:36:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tonywright.com/?p=161#comment-531</guid>
		<description>Amen, Tony, and good timing on this thought as I have to keep running it through my head.  While a company with little revenue may not be valued particularly highly in some sense, there are other factors that can tie a stake in the business to a particular dollar value.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amen, Tony, and good timing on this thought as I have to keep running it through my head.  While a company with little revenue may not be valued particularly highly in some sense, there are other factors that can tie a stake in the business to a particular dollar value.</p>
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